Comments on: Why can’t we pay for S60 upgrades like we pay for Windows? http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html Cell Phone News, Information, and Analysis Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:16:36 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: geek http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12141 geek Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:10:29 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12141 Hell, I'd even be happy if they just released the v3 firmware for e60 that has already been out for months on the e61. The Symbian version itself doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Hell, I’d even be happy if they just released the v3 firmware for e60 that has already been out for months on the e61. The Symbian version itself doesn’t mean a whole lot to me.

]]> By: Stefan Constantinescu http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12140 Stefan Constantinescu Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:46:24 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12140 phil: doesn't nokia make the hardware? phil: doesn’t nokia make the hardware?

]]> By: Stefan Constantinescu http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12139 Stefan Constantinescu Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:37:58 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12139 Well Geek they'll only offer upgrades one version up. So people with E61's for example would only be able to upgrade to S60v3 FP1 People with the N95 can gt FP2 Nokia pops out a new feature pack or version number every 6 months. that's discouraging to a lot of people. i'm not asking for S60 6th Edition Feature Pack 2, in 4 years, to be made for my E61. What I am saying is give us at least a +1 upgrade. that sounds more reasonable. Well Geek they’ll only offer upgrades one version up.

So people with E61’s for example would only be able to upgrade to S60v3 FP1

People with the N95 can gt FP2

Nokia pops out a new feature pack or version number every 6 months. that’s discouraging to a lot of people.

i’m not asking for S60 6th Edition Feature Pack 2, in 4 years, to be made for my E61. What I am saying is give us at least a +1 upgrade.

that sounds more reasonable.

]]> By: geek http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12138 geek Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:16:12 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12138 If nokia doesn't offer upgrade, people start to see that windows mobile actually offers an upgrade path. Nokia loses market share to WM. I'm certainly leaning this way after hearing about the upgradability of WM. If nokia doesn’t offer upgrade, people start to see that windows mobile actually offers an upgrade path. Nokia loses market share to WM.

I’m certainly leaning this way after hearing about the upgradability of WM.

]]> By: Joanna http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12137 Joanna Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:56:00 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12137 If Nokia didnt offers upgrade, 1% of hardcore users will buy new phone USD500: 1%x10,000x500=500,000 500,000>300,000 If Nokia offers, 90% hardcore users will never buy a new phone till SP5: 90%x10,000x500x3-(300,000x3)=12.6M net loss If Nokia didnt offers upgrade, 1% of hardcore users will buy new phone USD500:

1%x10,000×500=500,000
500,000>300,000

If Nokia offers, 90% hardcore users will never buy a new phone till SP5:

90%x10,000×500x3-(300,000×3)=12.6M net loss

]]> By: cybette http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12136 cybette Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:26:21 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12136 JonnyBruha has the right idea. To integrate the different hardware/firmware/software configurations is not simply just pick-and-choose, throw them together and it'll work. A lot of customization and adaptation work is involved to make a release work on a specific hardware. I don't work in a product group so I don't know exactly what tweaks are involved, but when we have to (modify our software/middleware to) support the different permutations of hardware configurations and features, it can sometimes be quite a PITA... and we are just one of numerous apps that goes into a phone. It might be feasible for a few selected models, but not for every single device. However if we make it available for one model, customers who own another model will demand (ok, firmly request) that we make it available for their devices as well. How do we decide which ones can get upgrades? How many upgrades can a device get? FP1 to FP2 to FP3 and beyond, or stop at FP2? Where do we draw the line? I don't think it's simply a question of whether it's fiscally sound. Even if it only comes down to finances, I don't think it'll be profitable, but I could be wrong. JonnyBruha has the right idea. To integrate the different hardware/firmware/software configurations is not simply just pick-and-choose, throw them together and it’ll work. A lot of customization and adaptation work is involved to make a release work on a specific hardware. I don’t work in a product group so I don’t know exactly what tweaks are involved, but when we have to (modify our software/middleware to) support the different permutations of hardware configurations and features, it can sometimes be quite a PITA… and we are just one of numerous apps that goes into a phone.

It might be feasible for a few selected models, but not for every single device. However if we make it available for one model, customers who own another model will demand (ok, firmly request) that we make it available for their devices as well. How do we decide which ones can get upgrades? How many upgrades can a device get? FP1 to FP2 to FP3 and beyond, or stop at FP2? Where do we draw the line?

I don’t think it’s simply a question of whether it’s fiscally sound. Even if it only comes down to finances, I don’t think it’ll be profitable, but I could be wrong.

]]> By: Phil http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12135 Phil Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:13:55 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12135 That's a very good question Stefan, and I got that question ALOT at 3GSM. S60 already has the capabilities to be upgraded. However, it's up to the device manufacturer if they want to offer the upgrade. So far to my knowledge, Nokia/Sendo/Siemens/Panasonic/Samsung/LG/Lenovo etc... have not offered this upgrade. So it's not an S60 issue, it's a device issue. That’s a very good question Stefan, and I got that question ALOT at 3GSM. S60 already has the capabilities to be upgraded. However, it’s up to the device manufacturer if they want to offer the upgrade. So far to my knowledge, Nokia/Sendo/Siemens/Panasonic/Samsung/LG/Lenovo etc… have not offered this upgrade. So it’s not an S60 issue, it’s a device issue.

]]> By: JonnyBruha http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12134 JonnyBruha Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:47:28 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12134 I have a hunch that Windows and Symbian are completely different beasts when it comes to updating feature packs and the like. Each Nokia model usually has some pretty unique hardware and every Nokia phone has a specific firmware. I think Windows can get away with updating their phones with things like this much easier, since the models don't really change across the board. Where Nokia would have to write a new firmware with ALL of the new features of FP1 for every single model, Windows could probably release 3 or 4 variants of the update, since there aren't nearly as many hardware changes as Nokia's models. Another point to mention is that Windows on our PC handles hardware much differently that phones do. Windows is extremely open to whatever USB device you plug into it and as enough of a software base to be able to run that hardware accordingly. I have a feeling Windows mobile may even be the same way so that only one version of Windows Mobile 6 was written, with the ability to configure itself for whatever hardware changes may be present on whatever device it was installed. Try to flash an N73 with an N95's FP1 firmware (or ANY firmware for that matter). That's an instant ticket to brick heaven and praying to the iunlock.com gods that they can bring it back to life for you. I'm not a developer either, so I could be completely wrong. I'm just piecing together what seems logical based on the performances of the three different operating systems. I have a hunch that Windows and Symbian are completely different beasts when it comes to updating feature packs and the like. Each Nokia model usually has some pretty unique hardware and every Nokia phone has a specific firmware. I think Windows can get away with updating their phones with things like this much easier, since the models don’t really change across the board. Where Nokia would have to write a new firmware with ALL of the new features of FP1 for every single model, Windows could probably release 3 or 4 variants of the update, since there aren’t nearly as many hardware changes as Nokia’s models.

Another point to mention is that Windows on our PC handles hardware much differently that phones do. Windows is extremely open to whatever USB device you plug into it and as enough of a software base to be able to run that hardware accordingly. I have a feeling Windows mobile may even be the same way so that only one version of Windows Mobile 6 was written, with the ability to configure itself for whatever hardware changes may be present on whatever device it was installed. Try to flash an N73 with an N95’s FP1 firmware (or ANY firmware for that matter). That’s an instant ticket to brick heaven and praying to the iunlock.com gods that they can bring it back to life for you.

I’m not a developer either, so I could be completely wrong. I’m just piecing together what seems logical based on the performances of the three different operating systems.

]]> By: ragz http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12133 ragz Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:01:56 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12133 i would definitely pay to upgrade to newer versions of S60.... maybe we can get a petition to nokia... same idea for getting continuous auto focus as an option on the N93i.... wht do u think? i would definitely pay to upgrade to newer versions of S60…. maybe we can get a petition to nokia… same idea for getting continuous auto focus as an option on the N93i…. wht do u think?

]]> By: cooli http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12132 cooli Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:00:36 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12132 Well as now users can do firmware update on their own via NSU, why not a software/firmware upgrade to latest Feature packs if users really want to get it/pay for it? Well as now users can do firmware update on their own via NSU, why not a software/firmware upgrade to latest Feature packs if users really want to get it/pay for it?

]]> By: Jonathan Greene http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12131 Jonathan Greene Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:33:18 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12131 better yet a fresh unlocked one... there's no reason why it can't work. They like to sell more $500 phones better yet a fresh unlocked one… there’s no reason why it can’t work. They like to sell more $500 phones

]]> By: Stefan Constantinescu http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12130 Stefan Constantinescu Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:40:04 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12130 how would a software upgrade screw up an fcc regulated device? there is no fcc in finland ;) how would a software upgrade screw up an fcc regulated device?

there is no fcc in finland ;)

]]> By: Alessandro http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12129 Alessandro Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:35:24 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12129 Ciao Stefan, there is a big different between the computer and telephony world. The mobile/telephony world is highly regulated. Why? Simple, your phone must make an emergency call. With this I mean that mobile/telephony equipment goes through a set of tests and that need to certify their quality. As you know before a mobile phone is released it goes through the FCC certification (in US). There are severe tests and so a software upgrade should not degrade that certified quality. So while is technically possible, I think it's really difficult to have hundreds of mobile phones tested on every single configuration possible. Alessandro Ciao Stefan,

there is a big different between the computer and telephony world. The mobile/telephony world is highly regulated. Why? Simple, your phone must make an emergency call. With this I mean that mobile/telephony equipment goes through a set of tests and that need to certify their quality.
As you know before a mobile phone is released it goes through the FCC certification (in US). There are severe tests and so a software upgrade should not degrade that certified quality.

So while is technically possible, I think it’s really difficult to have hundreds of mobile phones tested on every single configuration possible.

Alessandro

]]> By: korokmu http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html/comment-page-1/#comment-12128 korokmu Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:26:03 +0000 http://www.intomobile.com/2007/02/26/why-cant-we-pay-for-s60-upgrades-like-we-pay-for-windows.html#comment-12128 Yes . I'm totally agree with you and Darla . I will pay for an upgrade on my nokia n93i . Yes . I’m totally agree with you and Darla . I will pay for an upgrade on my nokia n93i .

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